wogma rating: Add to 'must watch' list (?)
“You want real acting from me? Here! Take that! And some more!” an emphatic announcement by Shah Rukh Khan in a not-bad thriller.Read more
A fan who he is absolutely obsessed by the star he is a fan of can't handle it when the star is put off by the fandom. If I didn't know it was a Shah Rukh Khan film, I would have been intrigued right away. But, as soon as you have Shah Rukh Khan's persona attached to a film in which he plays a 'star', I became skeptical. The skepticism only multiplied when the fan is a look-alike of the star, that is one more Shah Rukh Khan.
Why does the fan have to be a look-alike? The rest of the trailer looks like any other action film, chase sequences and all – which seems like a genre shift for director, Maneesh Sharma. That is always something to look forward to.
“Fandom versus Stardom” seems to be the theme of the film. Let's hope cinema, that makes either possible, wins.
- meeta, a part of the audience
Are there any limits to obsession? You might mull over that, but the obsessed knows no boundaries and is okay with you 'not getting' it. In fact, that you don't get it, makes him an even greater 'obsessed' even if only in his eyes. Oh what am I going on about! I can talk about a Shah Rukh Khan film without mentioning him for only so long! However, this time the reasons are all good. This is one astounding performance, even if he is playing himself for a good part of the film.
Let that register - Shah Rukh Khan plays himself, and yet, it doesn't get to you, doesn't annoy you. In fact, you empathize with the character despite his smugness.
Him as Gaurav Chandna though is a different level of act. From frame one you forget the actor and are intrigued-amused by the character. Of course, the prosthetics are amazing. But you are forced to admire the character who quickly morphs into his idol. And you smile at how the actor 'gotchya' because well, he is only playing himself!
I wouldn't be surprised if many of his self-proclaimed die-hard fans actually believed that they were getting a sneak peak into the real Shah Rukh Khan's life, especially in the first half of this film. The cooing by the two young ladies sitting by both my sides is certainly testimony enough for me. But hey, even if I wasn't cooing, I was in complete awe all through the first half too.
The story is sort-of predictable once you get a hang of the characters but the execution isn't what you'd expect. There is no lead lady, no romantic track and there are no song sequences. No romance and no songs in a Yash Raj-SRK union. And it is not certainly for want of situation - the characters are performing in award shows and weddings, for goodness sake. I don't mind songs in my films, but there is a time and place for that, which most mainstream cinema seems to forget. It is a bold commercial move to not serve the hardcore Bollywood fan their staple.
In fact, there is a moment of contemplation. A pause for thought and consideration. The focus is on the two characters and the face off. Which as admirable as it is, gets a tad repetitive after a bit. The second half slacks with one chase sequence too many and there isn't much happening otherwise. That's not to take away anything from the first chase sequence. Camera gimmickry aside, the action choreography and conceptualisation of that chase sequence is worth a portion of the ticket price. So is some camera-framing in a scene or two.
But then, post-interval the film gives way to run-of-the-mill roof-top and middle-of-busy-street chase sequences. Except for one scene with a lashing comment in a press conference, it is more of the same. Also, the things Gaurav does are rather predictable and thus not jolting enough. But then again, that is a comment on how fickle star image is. Media, fans, haters alike don't stop a second and consider, “Could this celebrity have behaved this way?”
Then we have the borderline sermonisation. It actually reminded me of Shah Rukh Khan's publicity appearance in the pre-match (IPL) show. He was introduced to who the show producers thought was his biggest fan. He gets a 100kg cake every year on Shah Rukh's birthday and books the whole theater to take his friends and family for every Shah Rukh film. And yet, Shah Rukh Khan the actor seemed a little awkward. Maybe it was all an act or maybe it was genuine worry of meeting a real-life Gaurav Chandna.
Even if we think he is a little out there, does the fan in us identify a little with him? Of course, Gaurav Chandna clearly needs help. And thankfully not every fan is like that. We might not be an Aryan Khanna fan or even a Shah Rukh Khan fan, but we admire someone. We want to meet that someone. We won't go to 'any' extent to meet them, but what extent would we go to? Do the people who would go further than most others see a part of themselves in Gaurav Chandna? Do they say, “you won't 'get' it” to people who point that out to them? Do they get an insight into how crazy it is?
For bringing these thoughts, maybe for not making me want to tear my hair out, for giving me 2+ hours of a solid performance, without taking anything away from the decent film that Fan is, even if I won't want to watch it again, I, a Shah-Rukh-non-fan would like to see more of this Shah Rukh. Maybe in a film that that will take our mind of his performance.
- meeta, a part of the audience
Thumbs up, by Anna MM Vetticad, annavetticadgoes2themovies : ...Though Fan is far from being perfect, it urges us to think about issues relating to stardom, fandom, idolatry and public expectations from famous people without overtly appearing to do so. It is suspenseful without beating drums and clanging cymbals around its many twists and turns. Much of its appeal lies in the fact that the central characters are not stereotyped. Besides, when Shah Rukh Khan decides to go real and understated, it always makes for compelling viewing. ... full review
Thumbs up, by Aashi Gahlot, Bolly Spice : ...Director Maneesh Sharma hasn’t given any filmi songs, just good performances and some questions for us to ponder. Fan is a winner. Highly recommended.... full review
Thumbs up, by Taran Adarsh, Bollywood Hungama : ...On the whole, FAN has a brilliant first half, but loses track in the second hour, only to pick up again towards the pre-climax. The writing should've been tighter, while the absence of music [it's a songless film!] may also prove a stumbling block, but what works, and works big time, is the terrific act by SRK as the fan. And that's enough reason for you to watch this thriller! ... full review
Thumbs up, by Sreeju Sudhakaran, Bollywood Life : ...Make no mistake, this is SRK’s best film in the last five years, especially after the likes of Happy New Year and Dilwale. However, this could have been a much better flick, if the makers could have toned down certain sequences and made it a more realistic one. Nevertheless, watch the film because you wanted SRK to do something different, and he delivers exactly that! SRK, you have made us your Jabra fans once again with your versatility! ... full review
Thumbs up, by Mehul S Thakkar, Deccan Chronicle : ...Gaurav rules the film through its various twists and turns, its emotional crests and troughs and even in its ending. He makes you believe how it's good to be a fan but superstar Aryan Khanna justifies how one must have their own identity. ... full review
Thumbs up, by Raja Satish, Desi Martini : ...Verdict - Fan is a ‘Fan’tastic tale that’s drenched in emotion but devoid of logic! ... full review
Thumbs up, by Ameet Bhuvan , Desi Martini : ...Let’s breathe a collective sigh of relief and say a prayer to the God almighty, for here is a Shah Rukh Khan movie that is good. ... full review
Thumbs up, by Smita Vyas Kumar, Desi Martini : ... Fan is a definite watch. The amazing make-up that transforms SRK into a young Gaurav, the high voltage emotion and SRK at his best deserve your attention. Go for it.... full review
Thumbs up, by Sudarsh Krishnan, Desi Martini : ...Overall, It's fair to say that SRK has brought his brand value back with a interesting yet offbeat film. Fan might not please all types of audiences, but it will surely open everyone's eyes!... full review
Thumbs up, by Rakesh Reddy, Desi Martini : ...It's SRK show all the way. His hard work and effort he had put for the FAN character was simply outstanding and commendable. I was happy to see the star putting his heart and soul for a character. Other supporting characters were pretty fine too. overall, Fan is a good movie, where you can see SRK finally acting, but it fell short of becoming a masterpiece. The point is that it had all the potential to become a great movie. ... full review
Thumbs up, by Mohit Patil, Desi Martini : ... No one but Shah Rukh could have pulled this off, giving the premise much of its force because he's often associated with both narcissistic self-adulation and the duality of identity. As a result, each scene is a double edged sword, taking on both the star and the fan in the dizzying hall of mirrors that is this film.... full review
Thumbs up, by Sidhant Shori, Desi Martini : ...The supporting cast had their task cut out for them, matching his performance, but thankfully they were up for the challenge and acquitted themselves well. The plot is interesting, but drags on a bit in some scenes and gets a bit preachy at times as well, which really doesn’t suit this film at all. However, these are minor blemishes in a film that is a must watch... full review
Thumbs up, by Yatharth Chauhan, Desi Martini : ...So while you figure out if Fan indeed is worth your time and money, consider these points and be the judge yourself. If at all Fan deserves anything, it’s our viewing! If you’re wondering why have I only talked of the positives here, I also have deleterious views to give but I’m in no mood to do that today! ... full review
Thumbs up, by Rachit Gupta, Filmfare : ...SRK is on top of his game and so is director Maneesh Sharma. Some of his decisions are real aces. The no song-and-dance approach really adds to the film's experience. The background score as well as the cinematography add to the director's vision. Even though the film is two and a half hours in length, it feels breezy. This is definitely a taut film. It takes a fresh concept and adds the right amount of zing to it. You could argue with the formulaic approach, but the usual thrills and spills don’t rob the story of its impact. Both the star and the fan have their grey shades. And that’s what makes Fan a smart film. ... full review
Thumbs up, by Johnson Thomas, Free Press Journal : ...SRK’s trademark performance, tics and all, makes both characters lean towards caricature. There’s really not much conviction in the telling either. The dialogues sound downright stupid. ‘Fan’ plays out like any other star powered vehicle that is much more interested in keeping the star in high spirits rather than telling a credible, relatable story. This Yashraj film is just a glossy shell that hides the hollow core within. ... full review
Thumbs up, by Zehra Abbas , Fully Hyderabad : ...Fan is certainly not a perfect film, but it's a unique, performance-oriented thriller that explores the twin themes of obsession and identity, more so the latter than the former. Shahrukh Khan fans will watch it anyway to see him essay the roles of the person and the mirror reflection. Viewers who aren't his fans should go to see him push this swivel mirror and confuse you with the revolving images into doubting what is real, and what isn't. ... full review
Thumbs up, by Rohit Vats, Hindustan Times : ...As a whole, Fan delivers what it promised in the trailers. Logic may not be its strong point, but Shah Rukh most definitely is; he’s back in his element after a long time. Watch it for him. ... full review
Thumbs up, by Ananya Bhattacharya, india today : ...In all, understanding exactly what goes on in the mind of an obsessed fan or a troubled superstar is not easy. 'How can someone do this for a star?' is a question that has plagued a lot of us at several points in our lives. Maneesh Sharma and Shah Rukh Khan hand-deliver that mindscape - of both the fan and the star - on the screen. And brilliantly. ... full review
Thumbs up, Indicine : ...Shah Rukh Khan’s best and most uninhibited performance in ages as Gaurav Chandna The action scenes are brilliantly choreographed The dialogues and milieu are very Delhi and very realistic The editing is crisp The first half is stellar Yogendra Tiku and Deepika Amin as Gaurav’s parents and Shah Rukh as Aryan Technically brilliant, the VFX is top notch. Credit to the entire team behind the film. Cons: The second half almost feels like a letdown because it works on an unrealistic terrain The life of Gaurav before he reached Delhi should have been shown a bit more The background score is too mellow and doesn’t emotionally stir at our heart strings... full review
Thumbs up, by Uday Bhatia, Live Mint : ...It’s been a while since Khan did anything that involved the switching on of one personality, let alone two. Fan is a welcome correction. Gaurav, who carries in his voice the hurt of a jilted lover, is a fascinating creation, but Khan also plays Aryan beautifully as a wearier, warier version of himself. The film bears little resemblance to what audiences have come to expect from a Shah Rukh vehicle: There are no songs, no heroines romanced. It’s difficult to imagine what his fans, jabra or otherwise, will make of a film that spares neither them nor their hero. In the world of Fan, both parties are entitled to smash up each other’s worlds. ... full review
Thumbs up, by Shubha Shetty-Saha, MiD DAY : ...Right from the beginning of this thriller, which undoubtedly boasts of one, oops, two of his best performances, it is evident why Shah Rukh Khan is needed for a film of this sort, and why only someone in his position and with his caliber could do it too. ... full review
Thumbs up, by Jaidev Hemmady, Movie Talkies : ...Sharma's Fan is delightful and dark in equal measures and the film would have been much better had it been infused with some realism, especially in the second half. ... full review
Thumbs up, by Kunal Guha, Mumbai Mirror : ...This film goes against the construct of a Yash Raj film. It has Shah Rukh Khan, but not a single song. It has a shaadi, but it's only peripheral to the story. It has a psychotic stalker but he doesn't believe in self-harm. It feels like a tribute to King Khan but SRK hasn't been more unlike himself in any other film. So, should you invest in such a risky watch? If you're an SRK fan, you don't care for approval. But even if you aren't, this one's a thrilling watch. ... full review
Thumbs up, by Saibal Chatterjee, NDTV : ...Fan works for the most part because it has the fabulous SRK act as a 'young' star-struck boy. His energetic performance is worth the price of the ticket - if not more. It is fascinating to watch the actor making the transition from a gawky movie-crazy youngster to a swaggering Bollywood star mimic on stage to a psychologically unhinged stalker who pulls out the stops... full review
Thumbs up, by Raja Sen, Rediff : ...Of course Shah Rukh Khan is his own biggest fan. It’s a rule that comes with the megastar territory, the need to believe in your own legend. What a film like Fan makes evident is that the rarified view from high up there may not always be the most pleasant. Especially when you’re looking at the fan in the mirror. ... full review
Thumbs up, by Sonia Chopra, Sify Movies : ...And that is the most intriguing, interesting part of Fan - the layered personalities of our two central protagonists, and the troubled equation they share. For a superstar perhaps, nothing can be more delightful and distressing than an obsessed fan. Especially when the fan turns fanatic.... full review
Thumbs up, Sify Movies : ...What Fan ultimately says about the star's equation with his admirers is that tragedy awaits any attempt to break the barrier that divides the heroes from their followers. Every star who thinks he and she must mingle with the fans and "belong" with them must see this film. ... full review
Thumbs up, by Namrata Joshi, The Hindu : ...Having said that one thing is quite clear: SRK couldn’t have found a better vehicle than Fan, both as an actor and as a celebration of the highs and the lows of his own stardom. A stardom whose enormity he’d himself find difficult to wrap around his head. As Gaurav tells him: “Rehn de. Tu nahin samjhega (Let it be, you won’t understand).” Will stars ever understand their fandom? Not quite. Nor will some logical journalists like yours truly. ... full review
Thumbs up, by Srijana Mitra Das, Times of India : ...The action's glorious but stretches while the naivete of Gaurav's parents (Deepika and Yogendra), unaware of their only child's feelings, seems slightly unbelievable. Yet, ending with a Baazigar-esque twist, Fan makes you feel Darr all over again. ... full review
Thumbs up, by Rummana, yahoo! India : ...It’s a shame that such an awesome plot suffers from such inept execution. Alas, that too in a film where Shah Rukh Khan has outdone himself as an actor. Whether you are a fan or not, watch this one for a side of SRK you have never seen before.... full review
So-So, by Baradwaj Rangan, Blogical Conclusion, The New Sunday Express : ...Fan, instead, turns into a preposterous thriller. And it doesn’t have the pace to make us swallow the ludicrous contrivances. Like the fact that a superstar feels the police in India are not going to protect him. Like the fact that Gaurav can transform, overnight, into a globe-trotting, Ethan Hunt-like master of disguises. Like the fact that no one seems to be able to tell that Gaurav looks like Aryan. Perhaps the point is that the film is itself as much of a double-role player as its protagonist – one half meek and mild-mannered character-driven drama, the other a comic-booky superhero saga, one half an ode to the Shah Rukh of Chak De! India, the other a nod to his Chennai Express-es and Dilwale-s. But it remains a conceit, and the director cannot pull it off. The two halves never cohere, though the two Shah Rukhs certainly do. This is one of the actor’s finest hours. He’s terrific as Gaurav, and he’s even better as Aryan, a man who has everything, and whose ego will not allow him to apologise to a man who wants nothing more than a “sorry.” Who’s to say how much of Aryan is Shah Rukh not acting but being? After all, who better to play a super-entitled one-percent-er than a super-entitled one-percent-er? ... full review
So-So, by Bobby Sing, Bobby Talks Cinema.com : ...In short, if you are a FAN then you are sure going to cherish watching your beloved star back in form after a long time. And in case you are not, then the man will force you to do so praising his flawless act of GAURAV as a true appreciator. However I seriously wish the team had somehow worked upon the second half, turning this mediocre film into a classic for the sake of Hindi cinema. ... full review
So-So, by Deepa Gahlot, cinemaah : ...As this vengeful Gaurav, Shah Rukh Khan channels his own youthful avatar in films like Baazigar and Darr, The scenes are not too convincing, but they lead to the inevitable showdown. Khan plays the star with a kind of weary resignation, so his real challenge is to make Gaurav likeable, devious and tragic at the same time, and he does that brilliantly. Shah Rukh Khan does not need to prove that he still has a true actor’s fire in his belly, but Fan does that anyway, even if that means no other actor in the film has much to do. ... full review
So-So, by Sarita A Tanwar, DNA : ...Fan is a not a great film, it is a brave film. Watch it still for Shah Rukh Khan’s outstanding portrayal (an extra star only for him). ... full review
So-So, Free Press Journal : ...Of nothing else, Fan demonstrates why SRK’s appeal is so enduring. Even in a film that has more than its share of flaws and loose ends, he can stitch together a performance that is both riveting and crowd-pleasing. ... full review
So-So, by Martin D'Souza, Glamsham.com : ...Waluscha D'Souza has no role. Even when she is being terrorized by Gaurav in her own home, the camera shows the back of her head. Sayani Gupta as his PA is top notch adding weight to her character, simply by her presence. ... full review
So-So, by RAJEEV MASAND, IBN Live : ...As I left the cinema having watched the film, I found myself conflicted about my feelings. There is so much to admire here, but it’s evident the filmmakers think they’ve made a smarter film than they actually have. Still, Fan works for the most part. And anyone who – like me – had grown tired and disappointed with Shah Rukh's unwillingness to step out of his comfort zone will have reason to be a fan again. I’m going with 3 out of 5. ... full review
So-So, by Saumil Gandhi, Upper Stall : ...As a film, I found Fan to be short of drama. This was meant to be a thriller, but that edge of the seat buildup is missing. Much of it can be attributed to the lack in detailing of the story. This is not necessary a slip as much as a deliberate decision by the producers and the director to make the film in a specific way. But it had tremendous potential to be a darker, grittier film. Darr has a visceral impact that probably will never date. In making the movie an ‘entertainer’ for today’s times – which it is, no doubt – the makers may have lost the chance to make it timeless.As a film, I found Fan to be short of drama. This was meant to be a thriller, but that edge of the seat buildup is missing. Much of it can be attributed to the lack in detailing of the story. This is not necessary a slip as much as a deliberate decision by the producers and the director to make the film in a specific way. But it had tremendous potential to be a darker, grittier film. Darr has a visceral impact that probably will never date. In making the movie an ‘entertainer’ for today’s times – which it is, no doubt – the makers may have lost the chance to make it timeless. ... full review
Thumbs down, by Kris Shripada, Desi Martini : ...The movie is neither a thriller nor a comedy with the only adorable bits coming from the parents of Gaurav with Deepika and Yogendra pulling off a good act. The screenplay has too many loopholes and shortcuts as the director desperately tried to preach what a fan should be and shouldn't be without really affecting SRK's fan base. He pretty much took the easy way out to show that a fan no matter how crazy he is, is still important. The sadness in SRK's eyes in the end as he waves to his fans in a way vindicated Gaurav's obsession and that was the movie's greatest compromise! ... full review
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::“You want real acting from me? Here! Take that! And some more!”::
ROTFL, Meeta! I know SRK often annoys you with his skating on things he's done before - so now, I'm eager to see this one.
Yes the actor is back, prediction is now >260cr.
Smart move releasing a bad movie during Xmas and letting intoleranced negativity to affect a mixed word of mouth movie.
I am pretty surprised at the super positive review given by the author. I attribute such subjective out of proportion adulation to the drought and rain syndrome. Just as the first drops of rain are soaked up instantly by a drought parched land, similarly a drought of A-level production company’s high budget films makes the audience thirsty for such high end products, and the first product to hit the screens is lapped up by the audiences thirsty for such high-end products. This does not mean that the product is super. It is just that the product was able to capitalize on a temporary vacuum in the market. Best analogy would be that of a hungry man/woman who would even find a horse delicious to eat. And to use a saying more at home “andon mein kaana raja”.
The movie is nothing but glorifying an arrogant star. The question that begs attention is whether [comment partially deleted because it gives the movie away] – even though in real life he does it to promote his films – point in case being his sudden public display of praise and love for the honorable Prime Minister of India just one day after his film’s release. [comment partially deleted because it gives the movie away]
And that fans are so naïve, assuming that the star would welcome him with two arms and more like Krishna welcomed Sudama, is from lolo-land. The couples sitting by my right side were constantly laughing out loud at each such lolo-land act of the Chandna guy.
And then coming to the stalking part, which is supposed to be the key element of the film. [comment partially deleted because it gives part of the movie away] How conveniently things happen, he could go wherever the star goes without any issues. [comment partially deleted because it gives par of the movie away] Come on, we are in 2016 and not 1976. Such stupidities worked well in the 70s, but not today.
Cut to the chase - as the Americans love to say (correct @TimELiebe?). I still prefer James Bond as the only one chasing around on the Adriatic coast in a tuxedo. Nobody could come near that. In the case in hand the chase sequences were way too long. And there are many more: two men fighting in a dense Delhi locality, and not a single soul gathers to watch or stop the fight. Let me not continue the humiliation of the film and the film’s fans.
The only part where I thought that the production was top quality is the back ground score in key sequences. It really improved the scenes several folds. Otherwise it is your standard thriller, which being the first high budget top production to release after the annual dull period of first four months, seems like an oasis. But trust me, it is a mirage. Not only would one not go to watch it for a second time, but one would also forget it within a few weeks once the real blockbuster season starts.
As regarding business, this film will do a better business than Dilwaale for two main reasons: no strong desi competition like Bajirao, and a high budget top production house film after 4 months meaning thirsty audiences' patronage will guarantee decent revenue. But let that not fool anybody that it is a good film. Revenue reflects number of people who watched it, does not reflect whether they liked it.
Before signing off, yeah the prosthetics reminded heavily of the sleeper hit one year ago with Kangana Ranaut having similar dental construction and atypical vocal tones. Talk of inspiration.
As a friend told me, Jungle Book was a far better watch than Fan.
@Fan : You're wrong. The business of Fan will be a lot lot lower than Dilwale. Of course the distributors might just recover their investment bcoz Fan's been sold at reasonable rates compared to Dilwale's insane acquisition prices. However, the important thing to be noticed is that Fan, a movie catering to the urban multiplex audience which forms the core SRK fanbase is struggling to generate footfalls in these very multiplexes post the first day. SRK was never a huge superstar among the mass audiences but the ho hum response to Fan in urban cities is clearly indicative of the fact that even his urban fanbase is beginning to desert him nowadays. Even an Akshay Kumar's Airlift catering to the same audience generated similar weekend numbers in spite of Airlift releasing in almost half the number of screens as Fan. This despite Akshay's popularity being nowhere close to SRK's in urban India (at least that's what the mindless fans of the narcissist would like to believe). Basically, self obsession has gotten the better of the arrogant self proclaimed king of bollywood and as a result, even his core fanbase of brainless fan girls, roadside romeos and eve teasers are beginning to desert him these days :P
FAN has alot of loopholes..but a good story , and a better first half..and i think any decent story with a lot of loopholes is better then comedy craps of akhsay and srk starrer rohit shetty and farah khan film or masala craps from pravudeva or salmaan (although its great to watch salaamn in Kick , bajrangi and uocoming sultan..seems like he is back on track)..and i think srk is back on track too..aprt from the writing , srk's performance was brilliant..that delhi accent was spot on..loved it..obviously srk has been a delhi boy in his childhood so may not have been too difficult for him..and also the cinematography , background score and direction were good too..yes there were some scenes could have been edited , but its more of a writers fault then editors..
and i also think that RAEES and Gauri Shinday's next will be better then FAN..i cant understand how FAN has maintain such high score on imdb , then again i also cant understand how AIRLIFT , GABBAR or Even BROTHERS could maintain such high scores..I guess the Fans are so much obsessed with their superstars that even a decent movie from them make those Fans happy..
i dont think that SRK , SALMAAN , AAMIR , AJAY , AKHSAY , HRITIK etc are bad actors..its just they choose bad movies..And in that list of choosing bad movies , the first prize definitely goes to Akhsay.. everyone falls after him..
@Anuj: you probably have a valid point. I had not analyzed any market data when I made the statement above about Fan doing better business than Dilwaale. My remark should have read more like:
I would not be surprised if Fan does better business than Dilwaale given the facts that there is no desi competition to fan in a period of -2 weeks to +4 weeks; and that people looking for a high budget A level production film after December 2015 would patronize Fan regardless of the quality of the film. However only time will tell how the movie trends.
@Anup: I wonder regularly as to what ails the Hindi films? Why can’t they be as memorable as some Hollywood films?
One of the reasons that comes up frequently is the absence of a strong story. If I look at films that linger in my memory for a long period of time then I observe that almost all have strong story lines. Films heavy on SFX but weak on story, usually fall flat. I always say to myself, if the producer / director had reduced the SFX budget by 10%, and would have had spent that 10% savings on the story department, then the films would have done much more business. The total film budget remains unchanged, but the chances for success increase manifold. For some strange obsession, the producer directors do not seem to have understood this mantra.
@Anup : I'm afraid if Airlift is what u call mediocre, there's hardly any Bollywood movies you're capable of appreciating. Airlift is brilliant imo and so was Baby. In fact in the last 4 years your so called trash king Akshay has the best content amongst the lot with the brilliance of Airlift and Baby followed by the good ones like OMG and Special 26 followed by watchable ones like Holiday and Gabbar. I suppose none of them would be liked by folk who brand Talvar as classics :P PS : did u just say Salman was superb in Kick? :D
@Fan: Baby,Badlapur, Pink, TWMR, Bajrangi Bhaijaan, Drishyam, Airlift,Neerja,Kapoor & Sons. That's 9 awesome films I've counted in a span of 12 months. Many more than the number of memorable Hollywood films I've watched in the same time period. Good or bad is a matter of perception. It's high time our audience stops giving undue importance to Hollywood as an industry. And it's high time the audience as well as the industry starts projecting the Airlifts and the Neerja's as the true face of bollywood instead of retrograde nonsense like Dilwale and Kick or wannabe Hollywood films like Ra1, Krish3 or Dhoom3
I mean PIKU not Pink. Nothing smart about this phone :P
SHOCKING!! As per official data available, The Jungle Book has recorded higher theatrical footfall than Fan on Monday. Even a 100 cr final tally looks difficult from here. Even the most ardent of SRK critics wouldn't have expected this. 2nd consecutive flop for the self proclaimed King in a span of 4 months!
I didn't said that salmaan was super in Kick , i said it was great ti watch him in Kick after so many craps . And about Airlift it was just talk talk and talk..nothing exciting in it..Ofcoarse its watchable , but just because of the True story on which it was based on and Akhsay's commitment (m not raising questions on his creditability) , i was just saying the ratings they hold on imdb , they don't deserve it. AIRLIFT - 8.8
OMG - 8.3
HOLIDAY - 7.5
SPECIAL 26 - 8..
out of these i only think OMG , Holiday and SPECIAL 26 Deserves the rating it holds..So yes Fans were overwhelmed by the decent movies of Akhsay..
About Akhsay making good movies..I think every big actor make good movies , but what matters that how many bad movies he make it betweek those two good movies..and the numbers are high in case of Akhsay
I'm sorry, u got poor taste. And yes, Baby deserves a rating more than 8.2 perhaps one higher than Airlift. Both Baby and Airlift are brilliant films with crisp editing, perfect performances, nail biting screenplay and spot on execution. As for actors doing good films, haven't thought much of SRK barring Swades and Chak De or Salman barring Andaz Apna Apna, Dabangg and Bajrangi Bhaijaan. Akshays got Sangharsh, Hera Pheri, Aankhen, Khakee, Special 26, Omg, Baby and Airlift. Does not matter what u think of Baby and Airlift. 80% of urban Indian viewers including the viewers from tier 2 cities loved them. Proof: Baby became the 2nd most popular film on the television circuit after Bajrangi Bhaijaan last year despite an average theatrical performance thanks to zero promotion and publicity. Airlift is a runaway hit with strong box office trending and unanimously positive word of mouth. Does not matter what u think of these films bcoz the majority of us cannot have enough of them!
Airlift was a movie based on negotiations between governments, government agents and ministers. Hence its all but obvious that there would be a lot of talk and a lot less of the action, drama (although the drama in certain scenes of Airlift was gripping nevertheless) that one usually associates with thrillers. Pity that u fall among the handful who did not quite understand this simple logic. I suppose you should address your grievances directly on twitter or e-mails to Akshay, Neeraj Pandey or Raja Krishna Menon so that next time they might try creating a suspense filled nail biting screenplay like the one in Tavlar or GOW and cater to your sensibilities. Its a different thing that such a movie would generate under 50 Lakh footfalls, be rejected by the majority audience outright and lose almost 80% of their investment for distributors to never put faith in Neeraj Pandey/Menon again :D
Anuj - I think you should change the way you talk to people and how you force your choice on others..But i guess something never changes..Thats the hard truth.
So about the good movies from SRK (I DIDN ACTUALLY THOUGHT EVER THAT THE DAY WILL COME WHEN I HAVE TO BACKUP SRK , BUT HERE IT IS)..- Baazigar , DDLJ , Dil To Pagal Hei , Dil Se , Kuch Kuch Hota Hei , Josh , Mohabbatain , Devdas , Kal Ho Na Ho , Veer Zara , Don 1 , Rab Ne Banaa Di Jodi , My Name Is Khan and yes the two films you have mentioned..But i guess you must have been forcing your choices on somebody like you always do when there movies had been released..So may be you have missed then..In that case i cam perfectly understand that you wouldn't even know why exactly he is called the King Of Bollywood.. And if you think these are not good and some of them are great movies then i feel Pity for you that you dont even know the Half of likeness of Bollywood audience..
Anuj - ABout Salmaan i dont really want to back up him . As its great to see you being against him , because usually u r the person who always says good for him irrespective of any thing which any other person thinks..Its great how your backing up changes from actor to actor..Your likeness is not even constant..When someone says salmaan is making bad movies you backup by saying his movies are box office hit , doesnt mattwr i liked it or not people are liking it..So he is the biggest superstar , and make movies which people like..And now if someone says salmaan is making good movies as compared to Akhsay you just named three movies of him which you think are good..So now Box office numbers are not good enough for Salmaan..You should first try to understand by himself that whom you want to support , i think that you have a problem of going against just anything you see..doesnt matter the person in front of you is saying
Anuj - and yes you also have a problem with the people who like to support movies like Talvar or GOW , and here is your comment on a crap movie like Miss Lovely which i guess nobody have seen -
"This is a brilliant cinematic piece of art! A realistic dark & disturbing movie which despite making u depressed and sick,will definitely give u something to ponder over. Much unlike "dumbed down" versions of art cinema like Dedh Ishqiya and Dhobi Ghat! And even though this one's gonna flop,it ain't making a difference since its hardly got any investment riding on it."
So it would be really great if you can just present your views and not force them on others because like nobody cares what m saying , nobody cares what you are saying..Keep the discussion healthy..Dont have to feel Pity for anybody , nobody is asking for that ..
Fan - I dont think writers in India get chance as per their credibility or their Filmography..Take Habib Faisal as example , before FAN he doesnt have any experience of writing Thrillers , and as a result the whole 2nd half of FAN is full of Loopholes..And its not Bollywood doesnt have writer to write thrillers . Vishal Bhardwaj (Kaminey Talvar ) , Reema Kagti (Talaash) , Neeraj Pandey (A Wednesday , Special 26) , Sujoy Ghose (Kahani) , Gopi Puthran & Vibha Singh(YRF's Own Mardani) , Suresh Nair (Kahani and D Day) , Anurag Khasyap (Ugly , Black Friday , GOW , Satya , Kaun)..
Bollywood could be a better place if writers get chance as per their resume or previous work..
I believe every actor who has been around for 20+ years would have a number of hits against his/her name. Does not mean they are a great actor, leave alone being star.
Rajendra Kumar was known as silver jubilee king, as he had a row of silver jubilee films. Does anyone consider him a good actor or star? I seriously doubt it.
Manoj "Bharat" Kumar had an impressive number of consecutive blockbusters in the early 70s viz. Upkar, Purab Aur Paschim, Beimaan, Sanyasi, Dus Nambri, Roti Kapda Aur Makaan, Kraanti, etc. They were blockbusters in the real definition, but is he a good actor or star? I hardly think so.
Similarly having some greatest marketing cons like DDLJ, and Dil to pagal hai on one's resume should not be used as proof of greatness (or anointing somebody as a king).
In true acting sense we had very few great actors in Hindi films. I could count them on my fingers: Raj Kapoor, Sanjeev Kumar, Amitabh Bacchan. My apologies to the generation that preceded that of Raj Kapoor, I do not have much knowledge of that era. And no, I did not forget Naseeruddin Shah, he is left out purposefully as I am not convinced that he is in the same category as the 3 cited above.
All the others are just actors who happened to enter some of us at some point in time. But absolutely not worthwhile remembering.
The current generation lot (Irrrfan, Hrithik etc. still have to prove themselves with consistency - too short a repertoire to be given any title).
@Anup: Bollywood could be a better place if writers get chance as per their resume or previous work..
Agreed, that is my point. Producer/director do not want to spend good money on writers - the writers and the talent is available but the "purse holders" have to understand the need to spend on them. They wrongly believe (IMHO) that writing is secondary to stars, special effects and music (in that order).
@Anup : Hahaha...DTPH, JOSH, KHNH great films?? I rest my case :D and ya he's called the king by a manipulative media sucking up to urban middle class fake intellectuals. In terms of collections, box office hits and footfall count ( the true indication of popularity) Salman Khan is the most popular bollywood actor nationwide since Amitabh Bachchan. Start discussing facts for a change!
Anuj - I said they are good movies and some of them are great..I didnt said which of them are great..U actually cant pick for me...
And sorry i cant really discuss about the movies i think are great with a person whose standard of GREAT movies are BABY (never seen a thriller is which everything happened so easily and non of our heroes gets any difficulty) and AIRLIFT (like i said boring talks..and as the movie is not a total true story i think the talks can be made interesting which are not)..
Small mention for how your faithfulness again goes to Salmaan Khan in your above comment..Man you are really confused..
As i have never contradicted that Salmaan is the most popular star of Bollywood..So dont know why you have to repeat that..
Fan - Just in case if you think that i think that SRK is a great actor..Then no , i dont think he is a great actor , but yes i think he has given some great movies..And i know that many people think that he is the Kind If Bollywood and i respect that..
@Anup: rest assured. I don't think that you think that I think ...
You have a right to your opinion and likes.
Anuj - just for clarifying , in your comments on the review of BABY you have said that its a 3.5/5 that is 7/10 , and my personal rating on my user review on IMDB is 6.6/10 , which i thing a correct rating for Baby , how come you keep on praising BABY so much and i find it just a watchable film. Also how can a person giving a movie 7/10 can say the same movie deserves 8.2/10 on IMDb.. as i can see my own rating is much more closure to your own rating as compared to the rating your were supporting in your above comments.
Anup : Firstly, u stop need to be getting so serious about imdb rating unless u wanna be living in fool's paradise. As for Baby, my initial rating was 3.5/5 which went up to 4/5 after a second viewing. Baby imo is a perfect edge of the seat potboiler which blends solid content with wholesome entertainment without getting as tacky as the likes of Singham or Holiday. Ditto goes for Airlift and hence a 4/5 for that too. As for my ratings, 4/5 is as good as it gets because imo no movie can be perfect enough for a 5/5 and so far there have been just 8 Hindi movies which qualify for a 4.5/5 rating from my side (Amitabh having 2 of them in Sholay and Deewaar). So when I rate a film a 4/5 in my reviews, its perhaps one of the year's best imo. As for Srk's filmography, none of his films barring Baazigar, Darr, DDLJ, Swades and CDI even qualify for being a 3/5. The best among the lot are of course Swades and CDI, both of which are 3.5/5 (a Good rating imo). Salman has 3 films which I rate as 3.5 (AAA, Dabangg & Bajrangi Bhaijaan), Aamir has 8 (JJWS, AAA, Sarfarosh, Lagaan, RDB, TZP, 3 Idiots & PK) with Sarfarish and Lagaan being the best of the lot having a 4/5 rating. Hrithik has just 2 so far (despite me being quite a fan of his) viz Lakshya (masterpiece, 4/5) and Jodhaa Akbar (3.5). Ajay's got Zakhm, Company, Gangaajal, Khakee, Omkara, OUATIM and Drishyam, all of which i rate a 3.5/5. Akshay's got Sangharsh, Hera Pheri, Aankhen, Khakee, Special 26, OMG, Baby and Airlift with Baby and Airlift being a 4/5. So ideally, Aamir, Akshay and Ajay are the one's who've got the best movies in their careers imo. Yes Akshay and Ajay both have signed a lot of trash, but frankly, I don't care about the trash as long as they continue delivering the memorable stuff on a regular basis.
I've not added the 3/5 to the above list because a 3/5 rating does not qualify for being Good. Unfortunately, so horrid & repetitive has been SRK's filmography post DDLJ, that i'm forced to take even the 3/5 (Baazigar, Darr) one's into account. As for Salman's stardom, he is undoubtedly the most popular bollywood actor of this generation and i'v always been a fan of his antics. He's the only actor whose films i usually rate a 2 or a 2.5 and yet might give them a second viewing thanks to his entertaining gimmicks.
Anuj - Finally a less aggressive comment from you..
First of all m not being serious about IMDB , i just get shocked sometimes how some undeserving movies maintain so much high score..For ex Airlift which you (not me) give 8/10 has 8.8/10 on IMDB which is like one of the highest rated Bollywood movie of all time.. But leave it on that..
2ndly i would agree with you on the Fact that Ajy and Akhsay have given more good movies as compared to SRK and Salmaan & AAMIR is obviously on the top of my list because the Crap movies on his list are fewer then any other actor of Bollywood .But unlike you i do mind crap movies in between two good movies..
So i guess thats the conclusion of our discussion..
@Anup : If u wanna apply my standards of rating directly on Imdb, no Hindi movies barring Mother India, Mughal E Azam, Do Bigha Zameen, Upkar, Sholay, Deewaar, Satya and A Wednesday would be more than a 9/10 on Imdb and it would be practically impossible for any movie worldwide to get a rating > 9.
General ratings in India are usually given on a scale of 1-5. Had I been rating films on a scale from 1-10, Baby, Piku, Airlift, Baahubali amongst others would all be 8.5/10. Just that its absurd to give 4.25/5 kind of ratings!
So conclusion is what? SRK sucks, Akshay/Ajay rocks. And Salman rakes (the moolah).
Deewar is definitely in one of my personal favourites but it always pains the heart when I think that it is an uncredited plagiarised version of Ganga Jamuna. That makes me remove a few points from it.
For the records Sholay too has been heavily inspired by Once Upon a time in the west amongst a host of other films.
Salim Javed were masters of recycling.
@Fan : I did not find enough similarity between Ganga Jamuna and Deewaar to go to the extent of calling it plagiarized. Minor similarities in the premise do not merit a word as extreme as Plagiarism. Its more of genuine inspiration from a story you grow up to admire and patronize. Something like what Rakesh Roshan did with Koi Mil Gaya. Take the premise of a story, restructure it as per the sensibilities of the domestic audience and present it as a desi movie. Plagiarism is more like ripping off a movie almost scene by scene without actually acknowledging the original, something like what Sanjay Gupta specializes in. Even Rakesh Roshan did plagiarize a lot of scene for Krrish 3 but from various movies of course!
Airlift - A movie catering to the urban multiplex audience & starring an actor whose more of a mass appealing actor than an urban appealing one released in 2100 screens and cruised its way through to 126 cr (thereby becoming a Super Hit) thanks to unanimously positive word of mouth among the urban multiplex audiences. FAN - A movie starring an urban superstar and and actor who enjoys immense popularity among urban multiplex audiences (at least on paper), releases in 3500 screen and collapses to miserable low level on day 4 itself. Even a 100 cr lifetime figure is a tough ask for Fan now. The movie has bombed big time at the box office. The inflation adjusted number of Talaash for the year 2016 would be around 116 cr and Fan would fall at least 20 cr short of that.
Anuj - Would have been better if you have added the STIFF competition FAN is facing against JUNGLE BOOK , which was not a case for Airlift..
It would be good if you present all the fact while claiming something for all the movies not just for the movies you like (for example you always mention Baby was not a bigger hit because of lack of promotion not because it was just an above average film [which i think to be true] )..Just mentioning..
On the 2nd week of Jungle Book , it has earned 32 cores in 4th day , its definitely hampering the earning of FAN..
Sry by 4TH DAY i meant IN 4 DAYS
@Anup : "Stiff" competition does not stifle a movie to the extent to which Fan has been stifled. Even if Airlift had released alongside Jungle Book, it would still have done 120+. A movie carrying unanimously +ve word of mouth will work, no matter what! Case in point, ZNMD (a movie that i found mediocre, having the same target audience as Airlift/Fan) doing well despite stiff competition from Harry Potter part 2. But unlike you, I ain't gonna sit back and give ridiculous excuses as to why a mediocre movie imo went on to get great appreciation among the multiplex target audience. You're the one who needs to stop sulking and accept the fact that urban viewers have given a thumbs up to both Baby and Airlift, 2 films that u unfortunately seem to detest for reasons i'm not interested in knowing.
"On the 2nd week of Jungle Book , it has earned 32 cores in 4th day , its definitely hampering the earning of FAN.." ~ and without Jungle Book, Fan might have made an additional 6-8 crores in the final tally. Wow! What a difference that would've made to the lives of fanboys who swear by this pile of garbage delivered by the narcissistic self proclaimed king of bollywood.
ZNMD and the super hyped final episode in Harry Potter saga released on the same date in India I.e. 15/7. I remember distinctly watching both in consecutive shows in the same theatre.
And ZNMD did not have it easy, just a week later (22/7) show the release of another massive blockbuster called Singham.
Of course in this 3 way fight (in India), Harry Potter lost out significantly.
54% of Jungle Book's tally is coming from the Hindi version which mainly constitutes the B and C centers, areas where Fan would anyway have never gotten a kickstart thanks to its genre and lack of mass appeal. As for urban multiplex audiences, we've time & again seen in the past that 2 films with unanimously +ve word of mouth can run parallel and complement one another well enough. However, the fact is that Fan is carrying a 50% recommendation rate at best. Just not good enough. @Anup- Just to rub salt into your wounds, Airlift in the worst case scenario had a 70% recommendation rate among urban audiences. Now get back to your sulking.
** saw the release ** (and not "show the release")
Gadgets are getting much smarter.
@Fan : Singham was never gonna compete with ZNMD and HP2. Singham had a different target audience constituting the B/C centers and tier 2 and 3 cities. It scored heavily amongst its target audience, ZNMD amongst its own and HP2 too did well enough among the urban multiplex crowd. It was a perfect scenario for audiences across the board.
Nevertheless a scenario where 2 Hindi heavy weights survived and prospered together. If the content is good then audiences do not mind spending on 2 films over a period of 2 weeks.
Last year too, Bahubali and Bajrangi prospered within one week's difference in release dates.
I suppose thanks to the ZNMD/HP and BB/Baahubali, the myth that Jungle Book being the reason behind devastating the "bollywood king's" and the world "biggest superstar's" masterpiece has been shattered :P
Anuj - There again your aggressive comments star again..
Not a single time i have said that FAN is a movie which deserves better earning , nor i have said that it is better then AIRLIFT or something like that.. M just saying you have always ypur reason to back up the movies you like..And you dont do the same for the movies you dont like..Just that..
I have said WOULD HAVE BEEN BETTER IF YOU HAVE ADDED..I dont think there was anything rude on that .. It was like a request (obviously i dont know how your mind works) ..
You can stop using words like SULKING and RUBBING SALT INTO YOUR WOUND..otherwise it would be meaningless to talk to a person like you..Its my 2nd request to keep it healthy..
Anuj - Did i said Airlift or Baby are bad or disliked them..I dont remember . Did i said tht it havnt been liked by the audience..I dont remember that either..Unlike you m not representing the whole country here.. M just presenting my personal views..And i give reasons for why i think a movie is just above average..Anybody contradict is welcome to discuss..But m not here at all for criticizing everybody with my bad temper..
Because you know if you have the FACTS (which i think and i guess everybody will agree that you always have , and m saying this as a compliment) then m more then happy to be proved wrong..But no need of showing your bad temper for that..Just FACTS would be enough..This is not competition and it seems like you are alone running for the first prize and would do anything to win it.. So calm down..
@Anup, @Anuj: Let's get back to fan.
In your opinion, why is it failing? (the game's not yet over so I used a present tense sentence).
Bad word of mouth do you think? But then hardcore fans would care two hoots for a bad word of mouth. And also: a few hardcore SRK fans that I know of have all given an excellent review (and same is the case with our inhouse fan ehinome).
And neutral people have given mixed responses (e.g. myself - I have put so-so, and Meeta - whose text based writeup is extremely positive).
So bad word of mouth does not seem to be the main reason. Must have some other reasons behind the slow business.
Competition from Jungle Book is suggested by Anup. But personally I am not convinced the least bit. Some animals in funny voices could not shake a self professed king.
So what could be the reasons?
I could think of IPL denting the business. It is an incredible competitor in terms of entertainment value. And with it's primetime evening/night time slot, it eats directly into potential viewers who might opt for the most preferred late evening show. To top it, watching IPL on HD giant screens is free, as compared to heavy bucks for going to the theatre.
Fan - If IPL is the reason then how can Jungle Book earned 113 cr which released just two day before IPL stared.. and also 32 crs in 4 days of its 2nd week..
May be its the mixture of all the factors..Mixed reviews , Competition from both IPL and JUNGLE BOOK ..
Logical reasoning. So IPL doesn't seem the big culprit.
@Fan:Neutral reviewers have given it a mixed response. Not neutral viewers. Neutral viewers are giving it a thumbs down. As for the SRK fan base in the urban section, it's been diminishing rapidly since 2011. And he was never a hugely popular actor among the masses anyway, nor does Fan cater to the masses. Even in the best case scenario, Fan would've been a Chak De doing 140 cr in today's market (CDI did 64 in 2007). Unfortunately unlike CDI, neither does Fan carry +ve word among neutrals and nor is Srk as popular as he was among the urban audiences in 2007.
Factors like ipl and jungle book are just silly excuses to cover up a debacle, nothing more. Unlike Baby, Fan had extensive and massive promotion and Srk in the lead whose a lot more popular than Akshay among urban audiences.
Yeah, I was thinking on the same demographic line. Younger guys from the metros are the next generation after SRK fan base (which dates from youngsters of 1990). This young generation are more likely to follow a Ranbir and less likely to follow an aging SRK. Every actor faces this challenge of shifting generation.
That i would agree that his fan following is diminishing with every bad movie..DILWALE being flop (i was quite happy when it flopped) was the biggest evidence..Yes was released with Bajirao but it was Holiday season..enough room for both of them..
i personally know many of my frnds who are angry after watching Chennai Express , HNY and Dilwale ,(they personally never agree that its a bad movie but some how you can judge that they are not happy with it) .. FAN is definitely a relief for them and they are overwhelmed of this movie but not to the neutral viewers..
I suppose thanks to the ZNMD/HP and BB/Baahubali, the myth that Jungle Book being the reason behind devastating the "bollywood king's" and the world "biggest superstar's" masterpiece has been shattered :P
@Fan : Its not about younger guys from metros rejecting the previous generation. If that's the case then why's it that Aamir Khan has expanded his fanbase exponentially in the last 10 years (post RDB). And Salman continues to remain the mega star among the masses of this generation too. Its got more to do with SRK's script sense coupled with his unwillingness to move out of his comfort zone on most occasions. He could possible not have expected his mushy romcoms to work forever, esp after he crossed 45. He did try re-inventing himself a few years ago with movies like MNIK, Ra.1, Don series and now Fan but unlike Aamir, SRK's choice of "non commercial" films has always been suspect right from the days of Chamatkar, Ram Jaane & Dil Se. The one & only reason for SRK's decline in popularity among his own fanbase is his poor choice of films, nothing else! I'm sure had Swades released in the multiplex era of today, it would've been a 150 cr hit.
And yes, if you wish you guys could check out my reviews as well as box office analysis on my blog "simplemoviereviewer" & "bollywoodboxofficedata".
Checkout this Srk fansite, the ever so manipulative and worthless boxofficeindia.com defend Fan due to its genre :
As per these clowns, Darr and Holiday are dark broody thrillers apparently. They term Darr as bollywood's most successful thriller ever. I wonder if these people people have ever heard of Deewaar or Ghajini.
I never quite find DARR better then a average movie , a good story with bad characterisation handle by a director who is good but not totally in his comfort zone when it comes to Thriller..Neither YasH chopra was not famous for thrillers nor YRF itself..Not saying that he couldnt had made a giid thriller , infact there were enough of them including one of his best Deewar in his filmography..but DARR was not one of them..The character of SRK was totally childish , unaware of what exactly he wants to do , blindly aiming in the whole movie. Cant forget the song JADUU TERI NAZAR poping again and again in the whole movie without any situation.. Yes it was 90s but seriously cant you recognise a voice on telephone threatening you if you have met him so many times in person ? And yes , how can we forget the KKKKIRAN thing . DEEWAR and GAJNI two movies for two different generation are far noth higher then DARR. as far as SRK'S own movies go i find BAAZIGAR better then DARR with more focus storyline , better characterization of Lead actor and yes The director duo who have made their carrier on remaking HOLLYWOOD THRILLERS and being quite successful in it ignoring RACE 2 , PLAYERS and NAQAAB..
Anup - I was referring to the use of the word "thriller" for films like Darr & Holiday. Imo, movies like Darr, Ghajini, Holiday do not qualify to be called thrillers. There is zero suspense value in any of these films for them to be called thrillers. They're more of wholesome commercial entertainers with the thrill factor being one of the many elements. Even Baby and Fan are more of action/drama films than thrillers. A thriller without the "whose done it" element ceases to be a thriller imo, however good the film is (read Baby/Deewaar). Only films like A Wednesday, Kahaani, Special 26 etc qualify to be called outright thrillers.
And I completely agree with the Darr analogy. Imo, it was quite a silly film with silly characterization saved only due to Srk's boyish charm and his dialogue delivery (one of his better performances imo). Baazigar had much better content and character sketching and was very reminiscent of the angry young man revenge dramas of the 70's. However, Abbas Mustan's fondness for ridiculous and needless comic sequences (usually involving Johnny Lever) and needless songs acting like speed breakers on a smooth road resulted in Baazigar not quite rising up to the level of the Zanjeer's, Laawaris's and Agneepath's (keeping Deewar out of this as that's an all time classic). Race-1 suffered due to the same reasons.
Anuj - I personally categorize MYSTERY and THRILLER to be different genre obviously the combination of both is the best one but yes there can be thrills in a movie without any mystery..
Drishyam and Wazir could be added to the list of thrillers mentioned above. Although Wazir got a mixed response from reviewers and viewers alike, I quite liked the subtle use of the game of chess as a metaphor in the climax.
Anuj - i dont think anyone disliked WAZIR's climax..Who ever has thought about it , it was a master stock.. But the path to that climax was pretty flat , and also some (not much) plot holes..I so much wanted that same climax to be in a better movie..
The trade experts have worked it out
Lack of songs and glamour (heroine) is responsible for the debacle.
:-) :-) :-)
FAN - The article itself says , lack of songs and romantic track, jungle book , IPL , mixed reviews , and also the bad climax together become the reason of bad performance of the movie..
@all Thanks for a (mostly) healthy discussion. :)
I feel a good movie is a good movie, no IPL-Jungle Book-No lead lady-No song reason can make it a bad film.
One possible reason I see around me is scepticism. After films like Dilwale, Happy Newy Year, Chennai Express, many people from my generation, who were growing up so to speak with SRK blockbusters don't believe he can do anything good. And most of these people have not even said the films I made, just their trailers were enough. So, for this bunch, even if I (meaning anyone who has seen the film) says it is good, they will take it with a pinch of salt and say, "naah - some other time, or we will wait another film or two."
Now why that is true of SRK and not of Aamir Khan or Salman Khan, I won't even try becoming a pundit to have conjectures and suppositions. But, in general, I have been able to get my husband and few friends to watch Neerja and Kapoor & Sons, but not to Fan (or even Bajrangi Bhaijaan actually). Of course, I am narrating only my experience because that is all I know. Having studied numbers and spreadsheets for a good portion of my life, I know how they can be played around with. I try my best to only believe what I see. :D
@TimELiebe - yep!
@ehinome you are claiming that he made a bad film intentionally, so that this one could make more money. That is some serious and seriously expensive plotting.
@Fan You could say - lack of good SRK films :P Because good films we've had a few in the recent months - Neerja, Kapoor and Sons, Airlift
@Meeta: I said big budget A-level productions. Otherwise yes Q1/2016 has its usual share of good surprises from mid- to low- budget films. Neerja and Airlift succeeded but are not really your big-budget A-level production houses. Kapoor & sons is A-level production house but then it has all relative newbies - no established star.
The attraction of a big production house big budget star studded film is totally something else.
@Fan see now, for me a film is a film is a film. The budget, star cast, etc are not factors as far as "drought of good films" is concerned. If I have seen good films, then "lack of good films" cannot be a reason to like this one.
(Un)fortunately everybody is not a "keen" viewer as you and me. Like you, I watch (almost) every hindi film that comes out - simply addicted. But for each fan like me there are several hundreds other who watch only a few films. And in that "few" the criteria of a big budget production house factors in heavily - to get the maximum for the heavy bucks spent. So for a "keen" viewer like you and me, agreed that a film is a film. But to your average film goer, I am pretty sure the cast and crew plays a very important role in deciding whether to watch the film or not.
@Fan : Lack of heroine, no songs, Jungle Book factor etc etc. Excuses, excuses and more excuses being put up by the usual SRK fanclubs which include quite a few media houses too. As an analogy, I would put up an SRK movie for comparative study alone. Did Chak De India! have a top rung actress? NO. Did that film have songs? NO. Was that a big budget lavish production? NO. Did that movie have as big an opening day as Fan (19 cr on day 1 is excellent for a movie like Fan with its limited target audience). NO. Yet, a Super Hit only and only thanks to its word of mouth. The main reason for Fan's debacle is 1) Mixed word of mouth amongst the urban multiplex audience of tier 1 cities 2) SRK's constantly shrinking popularity amongst his biggest fanbase of the 90's and early 2000's (the urban multiplex crowd) not because of his age, but mainly because of his poor choice of films over the last 5 years.
@Fan @Anup : By and large, if you do notice box office trends and word of mouth/recommendation rates its usually the medium to low budget content oriented films that carry the most positive word of mouth, be it urban or mass sector. The reason why big budget lavish films like PRDP, Krish-3, HNY, Dhoom 3, ETT, Bodyguard etc have made potloads of moolah is only thanks to their festive release and holiday weekends. On a word of mouth and trending basis, even for the popular guys like Salman, Aamir, SRK, Akshay, Hrithik and Ajay, its films which have carried the best word of mouth that have worked best be it urban multiplex sector or the mass sector...cont
...as for the urban sector, Salman's most popular films have been Dabangg and BB while among the masses even Wanted can be added to the above 2. The likes of Bodyguard & ETT never carried positive WOM even among the masses in spite of their huge collections. The massive collection came only thanks to their festive release dates (a factor which has made a huge difference in the multiplex era) and the huge popularity of Salman which gets the big initials. Ditto for Aamir. For SRK, the initials come in in the urban sector thanks to SRK's huge popularity among the urban audience (although this popularity has taken a beating in recent years). Among the masses/single screen audience SRK's popularity has always been below the other 2 and even below Akshay post Weocome and SIK. Salman's popularity among single screen audience is incomparable.
Most popular actors among the urban sector/tier one cities as of 2016 (form 30% of the audience in terms of footfall but 60% of the revenues thanks to ticket price disparity) :
1. Aamir Khan
2. SRK (was no.1 till 2008)
4. Ranbir (was huge in 2013)/Akshay (post Baby & Airlift)
5. Ajay/Ranveer/Varun Dhawan
Most popular actors among the mass sector/tier 2 & 3 cities and single screen crowd as of 2016 (forming 70% of the audience in terms of footfall but just 40% in terms of revenue) :
4. Varun/Ranbir/Shahid (thanks to Vivah & R..Rajkumar)
Movies with best word of mouth for the actors post 2006
1. Salman : Bajrangi Bhaijaan/Dabangg (universal), Wanted/Ready (among masses)
2. Aamir : 3 Idiots/PK (universal), Ghajini (among masses), RDB/TZP (among urban sector)
3. SRK : Chennai Express/OSO (among masses), CDI/RNBDJ (among urban sector)
4. Hrithik : Krrish/Dhoom 2/Agneepath (among masses), ZNMD/Jodhaa Akbar (among urban sector)
5. Akshay : Welcome/SIK/Rowdy Rathore/Housefull 2/Holiday (among masses)
Baby/Airlift/Special 26/OMG (among urban audience)
6. Ajay : Golmaal 3/Singham/Bol Bachchan/SOS (among masses), OUATIM/Drishyam (among urban sector)
Anuj - Quite an elaborate presentation .
To clear all the myth and assumptions once and for all :P
Raees, single release with good WOM = 152cr
Hahaha...hallucinations of an SRK fan. Unfortunately, not enough fans to get Fan up to even the 3 figure mark :P
Yeah, but what's the point of talking about Raees; being a single release; and earning 152 cr? It's not going to be a single release. And if hallucinating then why stop at 152 cr?
Raees would do well to release on a non holiday or a partial holiday like Janamashtami or Dusshera where there are no major releases planned. That's its best chance of doing 150 cr provided the word of mouth is at par with Chak De! as Raees too is a movie catering to the urban audience alone. I'm sure a clash (with anyone) is the last thing on SRK's and the producers' mind at this juncture.
I Dont think there will be any date available for single release unless otherwise someone do a favour to SRK like he did to Salmaan by removing Raaes from Idd release..It has to clash definitely.
Came across an interesting comparison of ideas on another internet site.
The comparison between Fan and the olden golden classic Guddi. Purpose of both was to demystify to an avowed fan on how the stars they revere have their own life outside of silver screen, and that the adulation is (should be) only superficial. Whilst the genius film maker Hrishikesh Mukherjee brought home that message nicely and easily, Maneesh Sharma had to struggle and failed utterly.
Nice line of thought.
BTW on Raees: it better find a non-holiday weekend because all the holiday weekends are reserved by other established stars. Kya din aa gaye king khan ke.
BTW BTW: Congrats to Anuj for crossing 1000 posts. First non-robot user of wogma to cross that milestone
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