Shivaay - Review

wogma rating: Watch if you have nothing better to do (?)
quick review:

Action for the sake of action. Story that wavers in its focus. And long, way too long.

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I love the Himalayas. I came back from a grueling trek in the Himalayan ranges a few months ago. One of the first lines Shivaay (Ajay Devgn) speaks resonated with my longing for the mountains. I identified with him when he said he can't leave the mountains. And that was the last thing likeable about the film. This is despite my admiration for Ajay Devgn's goofy, gloomy look.

You can't watch a 3-hour long film for the mountains or that suave look, right? I'd rather watch a documentary on the Himalayas and have an Ajay Devgn poster to peek at, if I have to. Other than these two things, Shivaay is one long chase sequence. The story shuttles between it being a struggle for Shivaay to keep his daughter with him, a hunt for her when she is kidnapped and human-trafficking.

The social cause seems like an afterthought. The story setup that gets Shivaay to Bulgaria seems too elaborate. He could've just been any father looking for his daughter. Why the romantic track and the weird situation? It almost seems back-calculated to fit the kidnapping. And to make the film longer.

The main purpose of the film then seems to be what it started as – a showreel for all people involved, the action choreographer, the cinematographer, the special effects team, the music department. And it would be one for Ajay Devgn's “I am so cool” look, if only it needed one.

Abigail Eames, who plays Gaura, Shivaay's daughter is the only one who seems to have put her heart and soul into her act. Ajay Devgn sleepwalks through this one. Sayyeshaa and Erika Kaar are both stiff and awkward. Of course, it doesn't help that the latter has to speak Hindi.

For an action film, there is nothing novel about the fight/chase sequences either. Except that they go on and on and on. This movie certainly did not need to be a minute over the 120-minute mark. In addition, you have predictable situations and tacky dialogue. The one thing I did not expect though, is the gratuitous sudden addition of a woman-in-a-tub song.

Shivaay comes across as a film that wants to be more than a regular action film. It doesn't quite achieve anything there. On the other hand, it loses out on being an out and out crowd-pleasing action film too.

- meeta, a part of the audience

Parental Guidance:

  • Violence: Lots of it.
  • Language: Clean
  • Nudity & Sexual content: A love-making scene. Pedophelia and human-trafficking implied and talked about.
  • Concept: A father is on the look for his kidnapped daughter.
  • General Look and Feel: Slick action

Detailed Ratings (out of 5):

  • Direction: 2.5
  • Story: 0.5
  • Lead Actors: 2.5
  • Character Artists: 2
  • Dialogues: 2
  • Screenplay: 1
  • Music Director: 2.5
  • Lyrics: 1

Shivaay - Movie Details

Shivaay - Trailer

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Comments (64)

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Fan:

Ajay Devgan's track record with high budget home production is highly shaky. In all his past endeavours he has confused money with substance. He has spent lavish amounts on his films in special effects and other polishing without concentrating on the contents of the film. Result? Terribly flop Raju Chacha, Toonpur ka superhero.

That is what is making me worried about Shivaay. I sincerely hope that he has learnt his lessons, and that he has a top notch story which is being recounted with the help of slick effects. If that is the case then nothing can stop Shivaay being the Diwali superhit.

Fingers crossed tightly, hoping that Ajay delivers the blockbuster.

Kapil:

Was all along thinking that Shivaay is based on Immortals of Meluha. But searched now and what a relief I got. This book is still out there, ready to be lapped by some talented director.

Fan:

@Meeta your bias for mediocre Dharma productions and Ranbir Kapoor shows through the 2 previews you wrote including that of Shivaay. Where the Dharma product is banking on the most repeated and chewed up formula of a love triangle, you are calling it something to look forward to in your preview. And in the same breath you are labelling Shivaay as a film with similar stories to some films and by consequence nothing great to look forward to other than probably the action.

meeta:

@Fan Oh no-no! It is a bias towards romantic films. And that "looking forward to" is something Karan Johar tends to mess up like I mention in the preview -
"Karan Johar picks all these themes that sound like they involve a lot of soul-searching. And then, the execution, the story just is a broad stroke and thus disappointing." and

"Just which man and woman get together isn't remotely exciting enough."

Perhaps, you overlooked those lines.

Fan:

@Meeta: to each their preferences. :-)

Anuj:

Not surprised by this as well as the other reviews from a media that loves sucking up to urban multiplex cappuccino audiences. If this media and bunch of braindead reviewers cannot appreciate a Drishyam and OUATIM, how can we expect them to praise Shivaay. Despite the lack of novelty, Shivaay deserves a watch only for its ambition and its narration parallels with the greatest god among all. Then again, we Hindus have a habit of preserving our secular fabric a bit too much at times! Especially the commie inclined urbanites.

Anuj:

@Kapil : Let me assure u, no Bollywood film-maker would dare make a movie on The Shva Trilogy. They're too interested in preserving their secular fan base by making films like PK, Chak De India and Sultan, thereby naming their holier than thou heroes as "Kabir Khan" and "Sultan Ali Khan". It took a southern film maker like SS Rajamouli to create a Sanatana mythological tale like Baahubali and only someone like him would be able to bring Amish's masterpieces on celluloid. Not the Johar's, Chopra's and Hirani's of this world.

ehinome okojie:

Shivaay - International Himmatwala

kapil:

@ Anuj I don't think that Rajamouli would be able to do justice to The Shiva Trilogy. He is too commercial to me. We need some director who can keep The Shiva as Amish has depicted him to be. Truly human. Nothing God like. Just an extraordinary human being who would later came to be worshipped as God. Then only that movie shall become great. We need someone who can do true justice to the book. And I just can't think of anyone. Actors.... may be Nawazuddin, Irrfan, Priyanka Chopra, Vidya Balan, Aliya Bhatt as supporting actors. But for the role of Shiva, i can't think of anyone. SRK, Aamir, Ajay Devgan, Salman, Hrithik don't fit the bill. Shahid Kapoor doesn't have the height. Do we have any 6 ft plus good actor with charisma? Basic problem with directors is that our intelligent directors don't make grand movies. So, we will get either an intelligent mid budget movie or a grandly dumb big budget movie. Hope I am proved wrong and we get a true masterpiece. Fingers crossed.

Anuj:

@Kapil : I think Hrithik would make the perfect Shiva and so would Prabhas or a Suriya for that matter. Anyhow, that's my personal opinion :)

ehinome okojie:

Kajol: Sweetheart, do you have Himmat?
Shiva with a Y: Yeah I do, there is Himmatwala
Kajol: Yeah we can make Himmatwala this time with Y-ites.
Shiva with a Y: Babe! what can I do without you?

Fan:

What's in a name, asked Shakespeare. A rose by any other name would smell as sweet.

Well Shakespeare did not know the Indian intellectuals and minorities, who are willing to dump a film because it's title has Hindu connotations. Poor Shakespeare.

BTW : Happy Diwali to all.

ehinome okojie:

Bajrangi Bhaijaan and Krrish have Parsi or Scientology connections I guess. Shivaay(Shiva with a Y) and not Shiva (Hindu God) will face disgrace this Diwali.

ehinome okojie:

If this film crosses Son of Sardaar (boi) I will call it a semi hit, if it crosses Ek Villain I will call it a hit, if it crosses Airlift I will call it a superhit, if it crosses Dilwale I will call it a blockbuster.

Anuj:

@Joker : Yeah, Khan fansite boi and you verdict is what Ajay Devgn's life depends upon.

@Fan : Hahaha...good one! I guess Ajay could have Indian-zed the screenplay a bit more and casted more Indian actors in the film to make it seem more authentic. Nevertheless, Shivaay's easily got the most breathtaking action sequences I'v witnessed in Indian cinema since Baahubali. Coming to Baahubali, it would be interesting to see if any of these pseudo liberals, leftists and minorities would be able to prevent part 2 from becoming the highest grossing domestic movie of all time. Baahubali-2, which takes huge inspiration from Hindu mythology would not only find favor among the Hindi masses (thanks to its dubbed version) but also among the south Indian masses, something that Shivaay being a Hindi film could not achieve. Its interesting to note that while part 1 surpassed the likes of PK and Bajrangi Bhaijaan in the domestic market and did well even in the US/Canada market, its the gulf/middle east region that prevented the overseas collections from escalating. Something similar to what happened to Bajirao Mastani which fell short of Dilwale in the overseas markets thanks to Dilwale's humongous numbers in the gulf/Saudi/Iran/Pakistan and where not. Speaks volumes of the nature of the "Khan fanbase" worldwide :P

Fan:

Almost a decade ago Ajay Devgn had made a brave attempt via U Me Aur Hum to increase awareness on the sensitive and painful issue of Alzheimer. This time around Mr. Devgn makes a brave attempt to highlight the issue of paedophilia, human trafficking and human organs dealing. Gruesome as it sounds it is a fact that India is faced with this problem (remember Mardaani?) and Eastern Europe is rampant with it. The Eastern European mafias are ruthless and have successfully infiltrated the important institutes to guarantee a smooth running of their operations. In India too this is a serious and widespread menace which the Burhan Wani sympathising media chooses to ignore and keep out of news.

It's with this context, crime and injustice that the film deals with.

The film starts off with the finest Himalyan visuals to be captured on the celluloid. It is simply breathtaking. Watching this on a 50" TV or an even smaller tablet would rob the viewer of the grandiose views that the makers had envisaged. Yes, I agree that this "introduction" part was lengthy and could have been shortened to 10 minutes. But sit back and relax because the story kicks in about 1 hour into the film.

The anxiety and pain felt by a father who knows that he is confronted with paradoxically an extremely efficient mafia to save his mute daughter, and with single focus of saving her from the sex traders is played out brilliantly by Ajay Devgn. There are enough "lump in the throat" moments, and the "bas kar rulayega kya" moments. Yes the second part of the film is loaded with top rated action. And it can be accused of being extremely violent often gruesome too. But that is the context. Eastern European mafias are not known to deal, discuss, negotiate; they go after the enemy with one sole purpose - eliminate the bastard. In that situation the only possible way to advance is to fight them and kill them before they kill you.

On the performance front it is Ajay Devgn show all the way. Abigail as the mute child was outstanding too. Some of the Bollywood leading ladies should take lessons from her.

The film does have aberrations and a few cliches - somebody must stand up. Yes, somebody must standup and take the (right) position.

Several factors will certainly work against the film; ie the name. Had it been called Sikander or Ali or Pervez the film would have fared better. The absence of a known face for the female lead or for the bad guys will also put off many people from appreciating this valiant attempt. And finally the cause of paedophilia and human trafficking does not resonate with many Indians - which is a shame IMHO.

Final words? If Ajay Devgn had kept the exact same story and execution of the film, but would have replaced the father by a simple god fearing Pakistani who is fighting against (not Eastern European) Indian politicians who are also sex traders to save his mute Pakistani daughter - then the movie would have broken all commercial records and would have scaled high peaks to make even Lord Shiva proud.

Anuj:

SHIVAAY is a technically brilliant film and one of the finest pieces of action even made in Hindi cinema. Pity that urban junkies prefer the same old done to death melodramatic formula of ADHM and ditch this fine piece of action and thrill. I do expect SHIVAAY to grow and perform well among the tier 2 and 3 cities though!

ehinome okojie:

Shivaay will be at best a Semi Hit.

ehinome okojie:

Disaster overseas.

Anuj:

I would definitely recommend Shivaay for the action movie lovers as this movie is a one of a kind action product in Hindi cinema. For the rest, you might just need a Disprine to sit through this one :

http://simplebollywoodreviewer.blogspot.in/2016/10/shivaay-review-har-har-mahadev.html

ehinome okojie:

Bajirao Mastani had an upper hand in three countries: India, US-Canada, and Australia.
Muslims from UK, Malaysia, Netherlands and other areas helped Dilwale achieve success I guess. Nobody remembers how Dilwale crushed Bairao Mastani in Malaysia in multiple of 20. Even in BM's best zone Mumbai circuit it was in multiple of 1.75. Still lolling. Yes it looked more expensive and it was reasonable for it to win worldwide.

Anuj:

Despite an 8cr difference in nett collections, it seems like the footfalls of Shivaay would go ahead of ADHM soon. Ticket price disparity between the metro and B/C centers coming to the fore i guess.

Fan:

Shivaay is at 7.4 out of 10 on imdb.

Another product vying for attention gets 5.4 out of 10.

Even though imdb is full of trolls, it is clear that even the trolls are dumping some crappy product.

Fan:

Anuj's prediction that Shivaay will pick up during the week seems to be coming true. Collaborated by industry figures/statements:

https://twitter.com/taran_adarsh/status/793354235454730240

Anuj:

Action always works with the masses and as much as the intellectual urbanite's detest him, Ajay does have a strong fanbase among the masses and in the interiors.

Ajax:

Shivaay would definitely make profits for the distributors in the interiors and mass centers. Despite comparatively lower collections, the movie would record almost equal footfalls to ADHM.

Rancho:

Shivaay truly raises the bar for Bollywood. Hope critics search their heart, forget about the moeny they got or the religious bias they have, and tell the truth about this movie. I was completely mesmerised by it. It does have some flaws, but overall, the movie is truly outstanding.

Fan:

Considering that as of today, Shivaay is hardly 10% below some wannabe in terms of money collected. And given that Shivaay's main patrons are in smaller cities where movie tickets are at least 50% less expensive as compared to metros wherein lies the main patronage for the wannabe. It is amply clear that the number of footfalls for Shivaay are much higher than the wannabe. Power to the people who ignored all the paid superlative reviews of the wannabe.

Shivaay is not the finest of movies to come out of Bollywood but this Diwali it is the clear winner.

Gokul:

@Fan How come??ADHM has more collections than Shivaay and has collected over 100 crores.That is a good achievement considering the boycott claims and threats and also the bad streak Ranbir Kapoor had.And this is just the domestic collections we are talking about.
It is a no contest when it comes to overseas collections.

Fan:

@Gokul: 100 crore depends on what is measured and how is measured. I am hearing 100 cr since day 4, but then bollywoodhungama etc is displaying 70-80 cr at least around day 8 or 9. So, the 100cr is whatever anybody wants to make of it.

Regardless of this reference point, in whatever business article you read, Shivaay collections are approximately 10% less. Thus if one is at 100 cr (in a given reference) then the other is at 90cr in the same reference. And given that the average ticket price paid for one is 300 Rs it would give a footfall of 3.3 Million. For the other, with an average ticket price of 150 Rs (which is on the higher side still considering smaller towns of India - and talking of average prices): gives a footfall of 6 Million for Shivaay. Even if you throw in the lopsided overseas collections thank to the Muslims of UK, you could still not match 6 Million footfall.

Of course I am simplifying a lot, but even with a complex algorithm it would be more than evident which was the number one choice of audience.

Gokul:

@Fan But considering all that still shouldn't Shivaay be the one making more because it is has Ajay Devgan who has multiple 100Cr films and Shivaay is a masala action entertainer-something that sells in our country.And Multiplex audiences have have rejected masala films earlier too.Considering Shivaay has the bigger budget among the two and has the lesser collections,isn't ADHM the winner considering all the boycott claims and threats??

Anuj:

@Fan & Gokul : Firstly, there has been no clear winner in this clash. The business has been splt wide open and both the films have underperformed thanks to the audiences being divided. As per BoxOfficeIndia, although Shivaay has done 63.5 cr in its first week while ADHM has done 78, the footfalls for both films is around the 75 Lakh mark & in the final tally, Shivaay might actually record higher theatrical viewership despite ADHM's collections being 18-20 cr higher. I have repeatedly mentioned this on this website and I continue to believe that popularity is directly proportional to footfalls (and not collections), so yes Shivaay might actually end up being the more watched (popular) film. Although in terms of ROI, ADHM will clearly make pore profits, although not by too much of a margin as ADHM itself carries a budget of 98 cr while Shivaay carries a budget of 103 cr.

@Gokul : Please watch Shivaay before calling it a run of the mill "masala" film. It is not your conventional Dabanng/Singham/Rowdy Rathore kinda action. This is world class action choreography, brilliant camerawork and stunts performed by action man Ajay Devgn himself. As to why Shivaay didn't perform in metros, that was bound to happen as Ajay's popularity among the metropolitan audiences has always been questionable, thanks to the metro audiences affiliation to anything and everything that looks mushy, chocolaty and pretty (SRK, Aamir, Ranbir, Hrithik etc).

Anuj:

Mind you, BoxOfficeIndia is not a Bhagwat Gita. Its just one of the many manipulative trade sites out there with their own vested interests. Fabricating numbers, manipulating verdicts (Ra.1 hit?) and providing false statistics in the name of authenticity is an expertise with them. I'm cent percent sure that they're decreasing the collections of Shivaay on purpose as they're infamous for being an SRK/YRF/Dharma fansite.

Fan:

@Gokul: to answer your question, it depends on what is the criteria used to define a winner. More footfalls, or more money. Or a combination of both. It is not straightforward as who made more profit, which is easier to say. Another factor (other than money, footfalls, etc.) is the technical and artistic excellence. Shivaay, is long but action is top rate once it starts going. The other I have not watched, and have no intentions of paying to watch - so difficult for me to compare both, but in my friend circle whosoever has watched the other has complained heavily that it is a bakwas film. So the (paid) media hype of catch it in theatre with 4 stars is visible for many to see. The word of mouth for both the movies has been average, with Shivaay having an edge in the word of mouth (at least in my circle).

So going only by footfalls, which Anuj equates to popularity in his above post, then Shivaay is the winner - even if it made lesser profits.

ANuP :

Hope its not too late to enter into the discussion .
Anuj - agreed what u said - "world class action choreography, brilliant camerawork and stunts performed by action man Ajay Devgn himself" , but you left the other things. "Average direction , not so good emotional scenes , Below average performance by both leading lady , editor must be sleeping in his working hours , and that extended climax after the last fight almost made me angry thinking when the hell this movie will end. My friend has been sleeping throughout the film and i have to woke him again and again for the action scenes. Shivaay is those kind of Hollywood movies which people like to see in fast forward mode just for action scenes. Yes its technical department has done a brilliant job , but it never compensate for good drama.
As compared to this ADHM is a much more mature work , Superb direction , not a single acting flaws , a very interesting screenplay (inspite of not so new storyline which is the only average thing in the movie) and alot of laugh out moments (& yes pretty nice cinematography as far as bollywood live stories go).
Both of these movies are for different audience. I am just presenting my views. Many frnds of mine have disliked SHIVAAY and liked ADHM and there is also the case of Vice Versa. Any person who doesnt mind boring drama in between superb action scenes will definitely enjoy Shivaay , for others (including me)ADHM is a better film..
Anybody saying Shivaay is another run of the mile Masala film is wrong , its not. But anybody who is saying ADHM is just another YRF/DHARMA eye candy love story with just good songs in it is very wrong too.
As far as boxoffice performance goes upto now , i guess ADHM has crossed its budget , but Shivaay is still behind it.

Anuj:

@Anup : I did watch ADHM in bits and pieces on a poor quality print and frankly, i did not find anything different from whatever i'v watched in the equally mediocre KANK and KKHH and YJHD. If at all anything, the characters in this came across as even sillier. Agreed Shivaay is slow and tedious at times, but at least it offers something new and worth watching in the action department! As for costs, yes ADHM has made profits in metros and overseas but Shivaay too has covered majority of its ground as per BoOfficeIndia's latest update. That despite BOI under-reporting Shivaay (something that they tend to do with all single screen hits like Kick, Krrish 3, Chennai Express etc). If we are to believe trade numbers, Shivaay is gonna make losses for distributors in metros but profits for the one's in the tier 2 and 3 cities and would cross 100 cr figure soon. As per BOI, it would end at 90 cr nett with an Average lifetime verdict. Even by BOI, Shivaay would record higer footfalls than ADHM despite collecting lower. Not a bad result when you have a film with just one known face in the action/thriller genre (something that doesn't work too well in Hindi cinema unless made on shoestring cost like Kahaani and Pink), absolutely no comedy and a lackluster romantic track with an unknown female lead. Esp when its up against a Karan Johar film with Ranbir/Anushka/Aishwarya in the lead, romance genre and chartbuster music.

ANuP:

Anuj - like i said , nothing new with the storyline. It has been taken from , YJHD , ROCKSTAR and WAKE UP SID , but what elevates it , is the screenplay , acting and direction. What differentiate this movie from other KARAN JOHAR directorial films is totally eradicating the Melodrama (which is the Forte if Dharma and YRF) . Most tragic scenes have been converted into light hearted one in the movie. The way Karan directed it , is more close to his produced movies like Kapoor and Sons and Hasee to Phasse then his earlier directorial ventures.
In simple words i can summarised that Shivaay tried to show something new (which i totally appreciate) and succeed to some extent .
While ADHM tried to show the same story in a different way. and succeeded more.

Fan:

@Anup : you say
That extended climax after the last fight almost made me angry

It is a pity that you felt that way. The irony of the situation that the writer director wanted to convey is lost.

Think of it this way. Here's a father who can go to any extent to stop his child being separated from him. Fighting the known and visible bad men. But life has so many ways to force the separation. How many battles are he going to fight? What is the point of fighting such battles? Can we win all the battles? If not then why bother about winning any?

So many questions come to mind. So many emotions rush in. So many profound thoughts occupy your mind in that "5 minutes of extended end". Leaves a Kashyap film far behind.

But then again, if the irony is lost on the audience then it is a real pity.

Anuj:

@Fan : U say both the films have had "Average" trending. As per numbers, Shivaay began with 9 cr on day 1 and would end up with a 90 cr nett approx total with an AVERAGE verdict due to its high investment. That's 10 times its day 1 number. In a normal scenario that would imply a 90% word of mouth. But since the Diwali factor comes into picture, we would deduct ~20% off and yet the movie would carry a 70-75% word of mouth which is a solid wom imo. The only reason Shivaay suffered in collections is dues to the metropolitan multiplex audience not generating enough footfalls and revenue in the first 5 days of release.
ADHM on the other hand started at 13 cr on day 1 and would end up with 110 cr lifetime. That's 8.5 times its day 1 number which in a normal scenario would be a 75% word of mouth. But with the Diwali factor into picture, we can safely say that the word of mouth is nothing more than 60%, mainly among the metropolitan and semi metro cities. Even on footfalls Shivaay might just inch ahead. A bigger initial and higher appreciation among the 5 major metros is what has tilted numbers in ADHM's favor despite lower appreciation and footfalls.

Anup:

Fan - its hard to discuss it without giving it away. But the way it had been handle , didn't seem realistic (and became too much melodramatic - fault of the director). May be could have worked in any other film , but when u are already bored of a film because of its length and want to leave the theater , extended climaxes are the worst things. EVEN LORD OF THE RINGS 3 made me bore with its extended climaxes.

Anuj:

@Admin : Why are my comments not being published?

meeta:

@Anuj Comments by commenters who have been identified as using abusive language and making personal attacks are now being moderated.

meeta:

Moderation would also apply to comments with political and religious content from now on. I am interested in making wogma a ground for healthy discussion about the content of the movie.

Discussions about the business around it, is just about as much as I can handle. Numbers without any sound statistical studies is bad enough, adding unresearched religious and political commentary is going to be completely deleted with [comment deleted because of political and religious content] to replace the entire comment.

Fan:

Okay, so the year 2016 is coming to an end. And from the last few drops that remain in the pipe, nothing spectacular is expected. Yeah yeah I know Amir Khan is lined up, but after his disguised communal attack exactly a year ago he has lost all forms of credibility.

From the rest that is still in the pipe: Force 2 might be an alright watch, if it continues where Force left. But still it would not be a force to reckon with and to upset the 2016 tables.

Kahaani 2: all promos lead me to think that this is going to be the biggest disaster of this year. It will make Mohenjo Daro look like the finest film ever made. Kahaani is so high in esteem (par with a Wednesday), and the promos of the 2nd installment are completely cheesy and Vidhya seems to be hamming all the way (despite the fact that she is a brilliant actor in the current generation of actors).

What does that leave us? Some Zindagi crap - I leave it for die hard SRK fans (who are dying faster than I am typing).

And that is about it.

So: all in all after an exciting 2015 with the Bahubalis and Bajiraos and Bajrangis the year 2016 has been a completely banal year. Commercially Sultan leads, but artistically or technically it is an average film. Followed by MSD in 2nd place with an approx. 125 cr collection. That's it. All the others just trying to make a difference but failing.

On star power, Akshay Kumar still reigned. With 3 movies released, and all 3 crossing the 100cr marker, his aggregate in 2016 is 300cr +

Maybe the absence of Deepika Padukone film made the year lose out? In the past few years, she has been at the spearhead of each commercial blockbuster.

On the hatke films, very few remain in memory. Neel Battey Sannata is very high. Aligarh is a good attempt. And that is about it.

So good riddance to a rubbish year (from Hindi films aspect). Year marked by stupid commercial driven controversies created by Kashyaps and Johars. And the year is not complete, wait for Dangal to contribute in the controversies.

Looking forward to 2017, with Kaabil to start the year. Going by the promos, if the love track is kept within a song sequence, then the movie promises to be a great watch. If the love track is going to take up one hour, then the movie will go down the drain.

Anup:

Fan - u seems pretty pessimist for the upcoming lineup. its almost like u want those movies to be bad.
Yes Dear Zindagi seems average. Force 2 has a nice trailer , Kahani 2 seems interesting , without much giving away , Befikre seems just a fun movie nothing more but i have hopes on Aditya Chopda's direction. Really liked Dangal's trailer , the way Amir's character has been sidelined to his daughter's character. Much better then Sultan and yes its first song's video is very entertaining too.
For the movies already released , my Fav are NEERJA , KAPOOR AND SONS , UDTA PUNJAB and PINK (best of this year , a 10/10 for me) . And all 4 didnt come on your comment but i guess better you didn't mention them then criticizing them.

Anup:

Infact Pink made almost 250% of its budget and Neerja even more then 250%. Only other movie which compete with these two on ROI basis is Sultan.

Anuj:

@Fan : I'd like to know your rating of Airlift, Neerja, Kapoor & Sons and Pink out of 10. For me, they're the top 4 of the year with Shivaay and MSD being at #5.

1. Pink 8/10
2. Airlift 8/10
3. Neerja 8/10
4. Kapoor & Sons 8/10
5. Shivaay 7/10
6. Sultan 7/10
7. Wazir 7/10
8. MSD 7/10

Dangal and Kahaani 2 might change equation here.

Anuj:

BoxOfficeIndia.com's constant manipulation and downgrading not withstanding, another reliable website BoxOfficeIndia.co.in records Shivaay at ₹ 97 cr in 18 days. Collections have slowed down due to demonetization. However, the movie is still the first choice for audiences in B/C centers even now. 100 CR calling for this one man action/drama/adventure. After BAAHUBALI last year, SHIVAAY has well and truly raised the stakes as far as action choreography and Visual effects are concerned. Kudos to the 2 time NATIONAL AWARD Ajay Devgn. Keep rocking! #HarHarMahadev

Anuj:

@Anup : ROI is only one half of a movie's "final verdict" and has nothing to do with "audience acceptance and word of mouth". Pink and Neerja targeted 25% of the total audience so in a best case scenario they could generate 1 CR footfalls. Both the films generated footfalls in the 65-70 lakh range. Both the films started at 4-4.5 CR nett on day 1 and ended up with 65-70 CR nett lifetime total. That's >12 times their day 1 numbers and a 95%+ word of mouth among the people who'v watched the films. Contrast this with last year's PIKU, it started at 5 CR on day 1 and ended up with a lifetime number of 78 CR and recorded 80 Lakh footfalls. However, PIKU was a more expensive film. On ROI, PINK>PIKU, on Word of mouth they're both the same but on footfalls, PIKU>PINK. And hence the final verdict for both the films is a HIT+ although since PIKU has higher footfall thank PINK, PIKU becomes a more "popular" of the 2. That because PIKU is a light heated family drama while PINK is a broody thriller. And Indian audiences, both urban and mass prefer the romance/comedy/family drama genre a lot more than action/thrillers (star worshipping not withstanding).

http://bollywoodboxofficedata.blogspot.in/

Fan:

@Anup : my remarks are on money made. I mentioned second highest around 125 cr and the rest below them. I did say that Force2 looks interesting, but I doubt that it would break commercial barriers. Kahaani2, the first trailer was horrible, the second trailer is alright. Befikre is for 2017, isn't it? As regards Dangal, I don't want to give too much credit to someone who regularly makes racist and communal remarks against only one community.

Anuj:

@Admin : I don't see the point in publishing comments 2 days after they've been typed out under the pretext of "monitoring". Anything >2 hours and the entire essence of the comment is lost at most times.

Anup:

Fan - Befikre is on 9tth Dec .
I was talking about money too. Isnt Pink and Neerja are superhit with their budget. Dhoni earned 125cr with over 100 crs budget.
And i thought we are here to discuss about the movies and not the personal life of actors , if thats the criteria , then Salmaan should be the last person who should be mentioned here.
And yes obviously , nobody discuss on this forum if any actor do something good , rather they only discuss if something bad happens that too with their own personal choices.

Anup:

Such an irony , when i started reading reviews in this forum few years back , it was all about quality of movies was discussed , but now a days its just about money what is discussed.
People even start mentioning what a movie is earning , without even watching the movie by themselves . Doesnt make sense , does the audience gets the money a movie earn. No. Rather they get a quality movie , doesnt matter it earned or not , and for the audience thats important. Yes ofcoarse we dont want our Fav movies to be flop , but thats only secondary.

Fan:

@Anup: see my earlier posts on Salman being a convicted criminal before shooting. I am quite consistent in my position. As regards Amir, sorry but his actions speak louder than your words. The guy is a hypocrite, and has selective pangs of hurt and human rights awakenings. And selective is unacceptable.

Human rights must not distinguish on religion, color, creed, caste, gender, age, ... If you agree on this basic principle then you would see through the pattern of Amir. You need to remove your adoration goggles to see the true colors of the guy.

Fan:

I was under the (false) impression that Befikre is in 2017. Hence missed it from my list.

meeta:

@Anuj I agree 2+ hours is unacceptable. Actually, even 2 minutes of delay is not good which is why there was no moderation for repeat commenters. However, unacceptable language that takes the discussion away from the movie has forced me to take some measures.

Anyway, this is the way it is because I cannot go through comments more than once a day and sometimes once in 2-3 days. I am equally unhappy with this situation, but will have to live with it.

@Anup I completely agree. That's why this new moderation policy. Hope it will help bring the discussion back to the movie. Who knows some day I will add "no business talk" to the list of "moderated" too. Let's see how it goes.

Fan:

@Anuj: Sorry, I had not seen your post. And I would have most likely missed it had not my explorer by chance positioned the screen after refresh on your post.

Let me make an attempt to answer it.

With the exception of Pink and MSD, for all the other films that you have mentioned in your post I have put my rating on the relevant wogma review pages. Nevertheless, to summarise:
I enjoyed watching all those films (probably Airlift a bit less), and if I am not mistaken then I have given a Yay Thumbs Up on their individual pages. Having said that, I do not feel like watching them again, not even in parts. Let me explain:

Often I have nothing to do, and am just switching the TV channels in an effort to find something that I might like to watch whilst whiling away my time. At that time, if I come across any channel playing any of these films, then I would not stay on the channel for a few minutes to give it a relook. I would just continue switching the channels. So, even though I did enjoy them when I watched them, having watched them they do not hold any special attraction for me to give a full or partial re-look.

This is not the case for the 2015 films. For instance, a Bahubaali or a Bajirao or a Drishyam would make me want to see a couple of scenes before continuing on my exercise of channel switching. Similarly, a Kahaani or A Wednesday would make me pause and take a re-look. None of the 2016 films that you name give me that urge. And that leads me to say that they are good films, but they all are at the same level. None is better or worse than the other. And certainly they are not exceptional.

Coming to the special case of Airlift, as I wrote in my review on the wogma page, I found it like a documentary. Does not mean it is bad, but it did not have the filmy touch. Yes, the goosebumps were there. Yes, Akshay Kumar gave one of his best performances. Yes, it gives a pretty good patriotic feel. But it still looked like watching a documentary. I cannot put my finger on the real reason for that, but I never got the feeling of watching a film - with the inherent anxieties, adrenaline, what-next, etc. I think that what also probably spoilt it for me is the massive hype that was already built up by the time I saw the film. And most likely the hype made me to expect something out of the world. And these expectations (which were unrealistically high due to the hype) not being matched, the experience was not ecstatic (artistically speaking).

Anyways, so in short, enjoyable films to watch once, but nothing memorable. At least for me.

Au revoir.

Anup:

Anuj - for me ROI is the best judgement of a movies success (as much as business prospects go). A good movie is a movie which knows its target audience and made on a budget that could guarantee a hit according to that target audience. A movie which is seen by more people but didnt get much on ROI due to its high budget is a less successful film (yes m pointing at MSD).
AS once Ajay Devgan gave a very nice comment on movie business "MOVIES NEVER FAIL, ITS THE BUDGET WHICH FAILS"

Anuj:

@Anup : ROI is a business verdict and is imperative only for the producers, distributors and exhibitors. It is not a true indicative of the audiences' response. Ex, Murder 2 and Ek Villain were Super hits on ROI but among the audiences, the word of mouth was extremely mixed for both the films and hence these movies hardly lasted in theaters beyond the first week. The final verdict for a film has to be a combination of ROI as well as audience verdict/footfall/trending. With regards to box office discussions, I do not see anything wrong with that as box office knowledge gives us a reality check of some of these so-called hits and false media propaganda stands exposed. Did u know that HAHK recorded over 2 crore more footfalls thank DDLJ? The media would have you believe that DDLJ was the biggest bollywood hit since Sholay but factually, its footfall count is even lower than Gadar. Did u know that DCH was just an Average grosser and just a 3 city hit? Ditto for RDB (although post multiplex/internet piracy era the footfalls have drastically reduced and even the biggest multiplex era hit 3I recorded just 3.3 cr footfall which is nowhere near DDLJ and Gadar). The media would have you believe otherwise! Nothing wrong in knowing facts even if they go against your personal choices.

Anup:

Anuj - m not saying that m against the discussion about box office , m saying that the content of the movie is more important thing to discuss..Which doesnt happen here anymore. There were numerous times i find you duscussing about the movies business without even mentioning whether you by ur self has liked the movie or not.
Nobody watches movies so they become hit , nobody watches movie so they can spread good word of mouth or bad word of mouth , people watch movies for their own satisfaction , and that's the most important thing to discuss..Like i said before , what business a movie did is only secondary to it..
And yes , the ROI discussion by me was about the business verdict not about whether people like that movie or not..or how long a movie ran in the theater or how good the word of mouth was.

meeta:

@Anup I would really love to have discussions here about the movie for its content rather than its business.

Anup:

@meeta cant help it. have to talk about what others are discussing. although i try to change the topic

meeta:

@Anup Thank you!

Anuj:

@Fan : Totally agree with you on Airlift. That's where I found BABY a lot more gripping and edge of the seat thereby making it a lot more watchable on repeat viewing. I never saw you write your views on BABY and PINK as yet though!

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